Ava Joe turns the dark side of womanhood into art

Ava Joe could, perhaps, best be described as the lovechild of femininity and darkness — visually, the singer has the delicacy of a Polly Pocket, but her song of the same name is, in reality, about self-destruction and a controlling relationship. That’s the duality that characterises the BRIT school alumna. One minute we’re chatting like any two girls in their twenties — “I love being a girl, I love the energy we all have with each other” — the next we’re discussing the darkest parts of the human psyche. “I actually thrive off feeling sad and angry,” Joe tells me. “To me, suffering is not feeling at all. Disassociating and being empty, that’s the worst.” At least for the EP debutant (Try Me has just dropped), she can channel her feelings into songs. “I love being sad in a really messed up way,” she muses. “Because I feed off it, especially for my lyrics, and getting in the studio and singing from the heart — from sadness.” 

Scarlett Coughlan: That feeds so well into your EP — but let’s rewind a bit. How did you start doing music?

Ava Joe: I’ve always been singing. I feel lucky in the sense that from a very young age I always knew that this is what I wanted to do — I can’t really explain it, but it was like an inner knowing, and I just followed that. Music has always had a place inside of me that I couldn’t really ignore.  

SC: How did going to the BRIT School shape your perspective on music?

AJ: It really opened up my musical world because people introduced me to jazz and funk and soul — like, real soul. And I’d just been raised on rock music, so I definitely wouldn’t be the artist I am today if it wasn’t for BRIT.  But then I decided to go to ACM because I wanted to change things up. I get a bit bored in the same place. I always need to be trying different things and going to new places.

SC: What have you been up to since music college that’s gotten you to where you are now?

AJ: When people ask that I always say, if you really want it, you’ll find a way to make it happen. I guess I used Instagram and things like that as much as I could and reached out to so many different producers that I really loved. Out of maybe thirty or forty, I think maybe one of them got back to me. Slowly you just start building connections. 

SC: And how would you say you’ve developed your sound?

AJ: I don’t really go into the studio with a sound in mind. Like, I know I want my music to sound feminine and I want there to be a bit of, I’m not just going to say exactly what’s going on. I want people to read between the lines. And I do like that darkness, because I feel very connected to my own inner sadness and that’s not a bad thing at all. Being nostalgic is also a huge thing for me. I think everyone has that bittersweet feeling with nostalgia — you love it, but it also makes you feel sick if you feel it as deeply as I do.

SC: On the feminine aspect — do you feel like you make music for women?

AJ: Only because I am a woman, so I can only write about what I’ve gone through as a woman. And there’s a lot of darkness that can come with that. So naturally I feel like girls are going to be drawn to my music. But there’s also been a lot of guys that have related to the songs, too. I wouldn’t say it’s just for women, but, yeah, I’m a young woman who’s gone through some turbulent times who writes about it to make something good out of it.

SC: Would you say that’s your main driving force as an artist?

AJ: One of the main reasons I want to do this is so that people don’t feel alone in what they’re going through. Like I hear you, I see you and I know it’s not easy, but let’s just make art out of it, and go through it together.

SC: Can you break down the songs on the EP for me? The first song that came out was “Black Smoke”, right?

AJ: That was a crazy one because I randomly posted this video of me singing it to my mum and it was, like, my most raunchy song. It went so crazy online, and I wasn’t expecting it. That song is about the time when I was with my ex — I mean, a lot of the songs are about my ex, annoyingly — but it’s about being with him and feeling very submissive and, kind of, being so in love with someone that wasn’t good for me — staying at his, smoking a lot of weed and just being together. “Eleanor Close” also ties into that song, and it’s just about an area that we spent a lot of time in, wandering the streets of Tottenham where — you know what it’s like being a girl — you’re dressing up in your boyfriend’s clothes, wearing his jacket, feeling very lost, but very in love and young and naive.

Then “Polly Pocket” — obviously this guy that I was with was very controlling and just a very dark person who caused a lot of trouble in my life. But, yeah, one day I started writing and I just came up with a concept for “Polly Pocket” because he was so controlling to the point where he would tell me what I can and can’t wear, so I knew I wanted to write a song about Polly Pocket because I felt like I was being played with — dressed up and controlled. “Black Summer”  is about feeling nostalgic and looking back on better summers. You know that feeling when you look forward to summer all year round and it arrives and the weather’s a bit shit and not much is going on and you just feel a bit like, oh, disappointing. 

The last one is “Try Me” — which is obviously the name of the EP —  is about me challenging my own boundaries and seeing how far I could take myself down this really destructive path with other men. Just chaos and danger, I guess. It kind of just wrote itself, just one of those ones. But also it’s like, to everyone else listening, try me, Ava Joe, for the first time in this first EP. 

SC: And, finally, how do you feel about the EP coming out?

AJ: It’s super exciting. I’m very proud of the EP and I’ve been wanting to do this for literally my whole life, so to finally have a body of work feels incredible. So, yeah, proud and grateful.